Posted on September 6, 2011 at 6:03 pm

New Evidence on Elie Wiesel at Buchenwald

Edited on Sept. 8, 2011, 4:30 p.m.

By Carolyn Yeager

Another official transport list of  the youths sent to France from Buchenwald in summer 1945 has come to my attention. Can it possibly be the “smoking gun” to prove that Elie Wiesel in not one of the “boys of Buchenwald?”

On June 14, I posted a blog on this site questioning “What Happened to Waltzer’s Book about the ‘boys of Buchenwald?’” Professor Ken Waltzer of Michigan State University wrote a comment to that blog  in which he stated, “Elie Wiesel was there (in Block 66 at Buchenwald) with other boys from Sighet, who knew him; he was interviewed by military authorities after liberation, in order to permit departure from the camp; and he went after liberation in early June, 1945, to France, to Ecouis…. one among 425 boys who did so.”

Prof. Waltzer has for years been firm in his insistence that Elie Wiesel was on the transport to France from Buchenwald, as one of the “boys of Buchenwald,” a legend in the making. This is largely based on a document containing the name of Lazar Wiesel of Sighet, born Oct. 4, 1928, on the transport list of  over 500 Jewish “orphans” from Buchenwald to Paris dated 16th July, 1945. (Note: Elie Wiesel’s official birth date is Sept. 30, 1928)

Page 9 of this list, as well as the cover page, as received by Myklos (Michael) Grüner from the Buchenwald Gedenkstätten (Archival Records Office) is viewable on Elie Wiesel Cons The World under “The Evidence”  on our menu bar (click on “The Documents” and then the link at #14). You will notice on that page that number 405 is WIESEL, Lazar.

HOWEVER … it has come to my attention from a helpful, dear reader that at the website of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (http://www.jdc.org) (AJJDC) we find the same list  only now it is titled “Orphan Children from Buchenwald now in Paris” –Convoy of 8th June, 1945.”

Here we see number 405 listed as WIEZEN instead of WIESEL. To get two letters in a single surname wrong seems unlikely, especially when it’s connected to a birth date that is not Elie Wiesel’s.

Wiezen or Wiesel?

That the documents are not the same is borne out by the fact that the AJJDC page 9 document above begins with #392 WEISZ, Sandor, while the Buchenwald/Grüner page 9 document begins with #398 WECHSZLMAN, Remet. In addition, there are other differences on this page in name spellings and two in birth dates.

The nature of these differences suggest to me that they may be corrections made in France to the mainly minor mistakes on the list from Buchenwald. This idea is bolstered by the probability that the AJJDC and the Jewish personnel at Ecouis had more interest in and time to spend in learning about each youth’s  personal information than did the American Military personnel at Buchenwald, plus they would be more familiar with Jewish/Yiddish names and they would be more concerned with accuracy. There is good reason, when you closely compare the two documents, to speculate that the latter document was typed up in France (AJJDC version shown above) and is the more correct one.

We also have to consider how unlikely it is that the AJJDC would want to tamper with the list to change WIESEL to WIESEN, thus denying that a Wiesel was transported to France from Buchenwald. If any tampering were done, it would more likely be at the other end, at Buchenwald. But I am not charging that … yet.

Confusion over Lazar Wiesel

That said, let’s consider some other aspects. In light of the utter confusion of records for Lazar Wiesel, who arrived at Buchenwald from Auschwitz on Jan. 26, 1945 with a birth date of Sept. 4, 1913 and was given ID number 123565, but who then either got lost or was “reassigned” ID number 123165, which had belonged to Pavel Kuhn, a Slovenian who arrived on the same transport from Auschwitz in January and died on March 8. (See The Documents, # 11, fig. 12.1) The name belonging to this ID number was then given as Lázár Wiesel (with accented “a’s”) who signed the Military Government questionnaire on April 22,  giving his birthdate as Oct. 4, 1928 (See The Documents, #11). This is said to be the 16-year-old Lazar Wiesel coming from Buchenwald to France and arriving in Paris on June 8.

This is not at all clear! But now add to it that this person was named Wiesel when he left Buchenwald, but Wiezen after he arrived  The rest of his information remains the same. Note also that the signature of “Lázár Wiesel” on the Questionaire is totally different from the signature of Elie Wiesel that is well-known. In addition, the only photograph that claims to be of Wiesel at Buchenwald is provably not Wiesel.

Everything points to an answer that Elie Wiesel was not the one who was at Buchenwald and who traveled to France in summer 1945. As I suggested in a following blog “New Photo of ElieWiesel in France?” he could have arrived in France sometime during the war—helped by the Jewish network and placed in the children’s welfare institutions there.

The ubiquity of the names Lazar and Shlomo Wiesel

I wrote briefly in The Shadowy Origins of Night, Part II that Sighet, Elie Wiesel’s birthplace, had a large Jewish population and that I had counted 19 Eliezer or Lazar Wiesel’s or Visel’s from the small Maramures District of Romania listed as Shoah victims on the Yad Vashem Central Database.  Nineteen who died in the “Holocaust”!  Just think  how many survived and continued to carry and pass on this name. Some were no doubt relatives of Elie’s family. The same is true for Shlomo Wiesel/Vizel—there  are many of them in the Yad Vashem database also.

The lesson of this, of course, is that simply seeing the name “Lazar Wiesel” doesn’t mean it is the one and only Elie Wiesel. That different birth dates are given for “Lazar Wiesel” fits this reality perfectly. It’s also true that Elie went by the name of Eliezer, his grandfather’s name, a distinction not without meaning. This will come up again, when I write about Wiesel’s family.~

 

30 Comments to New Evidence on Elie Wiesel at Buchenwald

  1. by Big Man

    On September 7, 2011 at 9:50 am

    Light is alway a great disinfectant….. particulary with such dirty liars like Mr. “Weasel.” Great research work!

  2. by Amerikagulag

    On September 7, 2011 at 10:17 am

    Another CON job. Brought to you by the SAME PEOPLE who wrote the bible!

    Good article. Keep up the good work.

  3. by robertsgt40

    On September 7, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    Weizen or Wiesel? Funny, I always thought it was Weasel

  4. by Hans Galland

    On September 7, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    is the proper spelling not Weasel ?

  5. by A Holocaust survivor

    On September 8, 2011 at 12:55 am

    Both my parents died in the gas chambers before I was born so you can imagine my indignation and fury at the suggestion that millions of Jews were not murdered.

    Even though there is no physical evidence and the only ‘proof’ you ever hear comes from us victims, which is invariably proven to be concocted bullshit which was only written to screw yet more money from European countries under the guise of ‘repatriations’, you must continue to believe the lies and proven liars of the Holocaust otherwise you are a Jew hating anti-Semite.

    Shalom.

  6. by A Holocaust survivor

    On September 8, 2011 at 1:00 am

    Someone has pointed out that my parents could not have died in the Gas chambers before I was born, otherwise I would not exist.

    Well, the fact is this – I was adopted by a kindly family of French Jews as a child and they kept me hidden until the Nazis were defeated. They also changed my name so don’t bother looking for it in the historical record.

    Shalom.

  7. by Carolyn

    On September 8, 2011 at 7:12 am

    Hans and Robert,

    For all those who might still not know, Wiesel is the German spelling for Weasel in English. So, yes, Elie Wiesel’s family name is the same as the word for that skulky little animal who, through cleverness and guile, steal chickens and rabbits from farmers.

  8. by Rafael Soler

    On September 8, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    Re:Comments #5- #6, Shalom… Speaks of his indignation and fury at anyone who questions the holohoax story as presented by the Jews. That proves his jewishness ,(in that Jews cannot engage in discussions where factual evidence trumps deceits and fantasy) Attorney Douglas Christie successfully presented forensic evidence into a Superior Court of Law that proves not one person was gassed to death in Auschwits Birkenau Camp. I don’t know if his parents were hanged, shot.or starved to death or simply disappeared.whatever..but in view of the Works of Fred Leuchter, David Cole, Germar Rudolf, we can rest on one fact..They were not Gassed to death. So Sholem Alachen, Shalom.

  9. by Carolyn

    On September 8, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    rafael,
    I think “A Holocaust Survivor” is speaking tongue-in-cheek.

  10. by A Richardson

    On September 9, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Page 9 is still on that site, exactly as you have reproduced it, Carolyn. (The full document is not. You get a message that the file is broken.) So there doesn’t seem to be a danger of it reappearing with Wiezen changed to Wiesel.

    I have some experience on French officialdom’s cavalier treatment of foreign names, so I don’t find this copying error unlikely, particularly as there are other differences; z and s in this context would be pronounced the same by French speakers. 2 Wiesels have been changed to Wiezen and one to Wizel.

    There are numerous other spelling differences in both personal names and place names.

    On the other hand, it is odd that a search for Wiesel takes you to Lazar Wiesel but this document in support. Perhaps originally they used the other document, and later substituted this copy?

    The birth date is indeed that for the person you give “as Lázár Wiesel (with accented “a’s”) who signed the Military Government questionnaire on April 22″, so it seems reasonable that these are the same person. Wikipedia gives Eli Wiesel’s birth date as 30 September 1928.

  11. by Carolyn

    On September 9, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Not for me, Albert. None of it is there now, unless you have a way of accessing it I don’t know about.

    French officialdom didn’t have anything to do with this list. These boys were in the hands of the Jews of the AJJDC and the Jews of the Jewish orphanage system. Yes, S and Z can be interchangeable, but not L and N. I can’t quite understand what you’re trying to say.

  12. by Ministry Of Truth

    On September 9, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Last night, a robber burglarizing my room fled when I came in. In his haste, he lost his wallet with an ID card:

    “Keith Waltsen, born November 19,1942″
    Does it make Kenneth Waltzer, born December 23,1942 the prime suspect?

  13. by who+dares+wings

    On September 9, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    “I wrote briefly in The Shadowy Origins of Night, Part II that Sighet, Elie Wiesel’s birthplace, had a large Jewish population and that I had counted 19 Eliezer or Lazar Wiesel’s or Visel’s from the small Maramures District of Romania listed as Shoah victims on the Yad Vashem Central Database.”

    Do you suppose they made double and triple entries for these 19 Elizer/Lazar Wiese/Visels? At first glance it seems like an unlikely number of them from Maramures died in the Shoah. But then every man woman and child in the Indian Punjab bares the sir name Singh.

    Elie Wiesel has written about two sisters who survived and immigrated to Canada. Why not try to find them and get them to confirm his identity?

  14. by Albert Richardson

    On September 10, 2011 at 1:20 am

    Well, whoever typed the document it is in French, Carolyn. All I’m saying is that there are a lot of (copying?)discrepancies between the 2 documents, so I don’t find this one particularly significant. I do find it odd that searching for Lazar Wiesel leads to the document with Wiezen. I see no reason to think that the name of the person indicated in the two documents is not Wiesel, though whether that person is our mutual friend is another matter.

    I went to the site in Firefox, searched for Wiesel. found Lazar Wiesel, with the 2 links. I right-clicked on the View-Document link and downloaded it. I then clicked on the View-Full-List link and got the error message. I just tested it again now. It hasn’t changed.

  15. by Carolyn

    On September 10, 2011 at 7:58 am

    The heading is in English and French — not surprising. It appears to be a joint effort between the AMERICAN Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and the Ecouis Jewish child welfare institutions in FRANCE. The names are basically in German.

    I right clicked as you suggessted, and downloaded to my computer file but neither Page 9 nor the entire list will open. I get a message from Adobe Reader that “a problem has occured and it needs to close.” AJJDC has disabled it completely for Internet Explorer. They are deciding what to do. As you say, the question is how did Wiesel get changed to Wiesen or is it the other way around? Who copied whom? Which list is correct? And why re-type it — didn’t they have some form of copying available at that time?

    This is interesting, but the main issue remains: That this particular “Lazar Wiesel” is not Elie Wiesel.

  16. by Carolyn

    On September 10, 2011 at 8:17 am

    To who-dares-wings: Each “victim” in the Yad Vashen database has a form filled out by a relative, friend, neighbor, what have you. They are not vetted, just accepted — therefore I doubt so many Vizels were killed in a concentration camp or any other way. However, these forms can be interesting — for example, Elie Wiesel filled out the form for his father, Shlomo Vizel, in 2004 (a correction from what I originally wrote). He was persuaded to do this to publicize the request for Jews to cooperate with Yad Vashem in reporting “deaths from Holocaust” to build up their “records.”

    There were a lot of Jews in these cities in the Maramures district and a lot with the name of Vizel/Wiesel. Ditto Lazar/Eliezer and Shlomo/Salomon. Especially the first names were very common.

    Your suggestion seems a bit flippant, so I’ll answer in turn: If you think something can be got from the sisters, why don’t you try it? One has been dead for a number of years; the other soon will be. How about this: Why not get Elie to confirm his identity????

    The surviving sister did not emigrate to Canada. AFAIK, she is still in France.

  17. by Albert Richardson

    On September 12, 2011 at 7:09 am

    Hi Carolyn,

    I went back a minute ago using Internet Explorer this time. I had no problem either downloading the single page 9 or viewing it inside Internet Explorer. The only issue was I got a message that my version of Acrobat Reader might not be up to date enough to read the document. But I just clicked on OK and the document opened. If you are still having a difficulty it must be at your end. The page is still there and downloadable. The full list document is still broken, though.

    Re copying, I’m pretty sure photocopies were unknown in 1945. I do rememember hearing about the concept around 1960 but I only ever got to use one by the late sixties, and even then the quality was poor and the product wet and smelly.

  18. by Carolyn

    On September 12, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Well Albert, good for you. I’d like to hear from some other people on this. If the page is still available, I’m glad, but it’s still not for me and I have no trouble with my Acrobat Reader otherwise.

    I did not mean photocopying, but other ways of copying. In the forties and fifties mimeographs were made; they were in common use by 1900! There were usually at least two carbon copies made of important documents, too. Thus, I do wonder why this list was re-typed. Also, the date put on the list that Buchenwald has is July 16, 1945 even though the boys left for France on June 8 and it didn’t take them a month and a half to arrive. Many questions could be asked; as we know, the perpetrators of the fraud never want to divulge or discuss details.

  19. by Carolyn

    On September 14, 2011 at 7:29 am

    Albert,

    Both documents are now available to me again. I needed some updates to my Acrobat Reader, and that did it, but other PDF files were working for me so I didn’t realize the problem. I’m glad those pages are still there and that you persevered in making it known. I’ll remove my addition to the blog post.

    The question remains: Why was the list re-typed and who was responsible for even making the list in the first place? We assume the Military Govt. ruling the camp made up the list, but that is not necessarily so. It appears the Jews took over immmediately, as a kind of Jewish/Communist Council made of of ex-inmates and put themselves in charge of the camp. We know most inmates at Buchenwald were not Jewish, except the newest arrivals from Auschwitz. The AJJDC says they contacted the OSE in France, who sent a representative to arrange for the transfer of the Jewish youths. In all the confusion, it’s likely the Military Govt. just let these people run things for themselves.

    Exactly as Hitler let the Jews run their own affairs in the ghettos, and even in the camps. Something to think about. Not that many people will trouble themselves with thinking.

  20. by Sarah

    On November 22, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    this website is truly disgusting, so what if Elie isn’t documented properly within the records, you do realize Nazi’s didn’t bother documenting EVERY SINGLE PERSON to go through each camp, they could care less. Not all records will be accurate, and regardless if Elie did live in Buchenwald or not makes no difference, but why a man who has suffered and endured so much, lie about where he’s been, for every historian or writer who thinks any holocaust survivor is lying about their experinces cannot speak on their behalf because they have not been in same position.

  21. by Sarah

    On November 24, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    Glad you were able to reply back Carolyn, I assumed you would be busy writing more articles on Elie Wisel lying to the public about his experiences. I have read more articles on your website, and you might be surprised to hear that I have a slight change in opinion, yes the tattoo not being where it should be is very strange, but I still don’t believe that calling this man a con is the right way to go about it and yes he could be lying about his experiences, but reading his novels, can you honestly tell me that someone can make all of that up? Can you tell me that you could write a novel like Night, lie about such a tragic experience such as the Holocaust. As I read further on in your articles it disgusts me to see that the many people who comment don’t believe the holocaust ever happened. This is quite ironic actually, Carolyn, you have evidence to prove that Elie Wisel is lying about his time in the concentration camps, and the proof you have is quite substantial, so how is it that with the proof that British soldiers brought from Bergen-Belsen and the numerous photos taken of the prisoners shown to the general public are disregarded and hundreds of testimonies from real survivors are just tossed aside(unless you are going to go on to prove every single survivor is lying and find proof to back that up). In my opinion, that’s real evidence, and yet people continue to deny the holocaust, and your site seems to support that as well, funny, isn’t it. I guess for most people, the truth is hard to swallow, and its easier to deny that millions of people died under the watch of the entire world and nothing was done for years; rather than accept that an entire race was almost abolished because of pure ignorance. Hope to hear from you soon Carolyn, and I read Hailey’s post, and I love her for that, why do you spend so much time trying to prove 1 man wrong, regardless if he’s never even set foot on a camp soil, the Nazi’s had a final plan to kill all Jews, they almost accomplished just that, the Allies took their sweet time getting to these camps and what do people says years later? “It’s a lie, Jewish people just want to hype up German hatred.” “Its all a Holohoax.”
    It’s great to see what kind of world we live in………so far I don’t see any sites denying the Rwanda Genocide, so is that what’s next, worldwide denial of that, or can we just refer to all the videos of the dead bodies along the road…..OH WAIT, didn’t we see that in the concentration camps?

  22. by Sarah

    On November 25, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Is deleting my post really justifiable Carolyn?I admit that my last post was amateur, I had merely glimpsed at your website and my anger got the best of me, but why did you delete the comment I took time to write?Can you not give me an answer when I’ve given you more proof, it seems to me as though you delete posts when you can’t come up with a good argument/answer, and I took time posting that comment, its sad to see that you cannot answer me properly. Here’s hoping you don’t delete this post either, but who knows.

  23. by Carolyn

    On November 25, 2011 at 11:24 am

    Sarah, I did not delete your comment, but it would have been better if you wrote it at the “Letters of the Week” where I replied to you. However, if it is alright with you, I will copy it and add it to the “Letter of the Week” blogpost as an update, and we can continue there. Let me know if that is okay with you. I don’t want to do it without your permission.

  24. by Carolyn

    On November 25, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Okay Sarah, I will go ahead and answer you here.

    I welcome the opportunity to discuss with you all that you have brought up. But first I have to chide you for changing the subject. You gave up on defending Elie Wiesel very quickly, but you still don’t want to admit he lies. You admit the tattoo is not where it should be but you leave out that he says it is there. Doesn’t this alone make him something of a con man? What else would you call it? A liar? A mental case? A person who thinks he is above all rules and/or physical laws? Please explain to me why he would say he has an A-7713 tattoo on his arm when the rest of the world can see that he doesn’t. I’ll give you a hint: he is very ambitious; and he knows the Media will never bring it up, will never ask him about it. He knows the all-powerful Media is in the hands of His Friends.

    You bring up his novels. How many of his novels have you read? Only Night? You ask if I could write such a novel without being in the camps. The answer is yes because others have done it; quite a few fraudulent concentration camp stories have been uncovered. Almost all holocaust survivor books are half fiction. There is so much literature about the camps out there, all you have to do is read it and then write your own. Also, Night has many un-credible and inaccurate passages (some even copied on the sidebar of this website) that have caused critics to question whether Wiesel was actually there — long before Myklos Grüner came on the scene with documents. In all sincerity, Sarah, I don’t think you could defend the book Night if you had to.

    At this point you jump to Bergen-Belsen, since you have not made your case about Wiesel. This is what holocaust believers invariably do. But this website is only about Elie Wiesel. I stick to that so people can’t change the subject on me and go around in circles as you’re doing. It’s clear to me that you realize Elie Wiesel cannot be defended, as many are coming to realize, but you don’t want to talk about it. You say calling Wiesel a con is not the right way to go about it; that yes, he may be lying but his book is so good. This does not make sense. He is or he isn’t. The facts say he is, which you recognize.

    You only sound silly, Sarah, because you’re trying to defend the indefensible. So you say to me: “why do you spend so much time trying to prove 1 man wrong, regardless if he’s never even set foot on a camp soil, the Nazi’s had a final plan to kill all Jews, they almost accomplished just that …” If the Nazi’s had such a plan (which has never been discovered) they certainly didn’t come close to killing all Jews. There were more Jews than ever shortly after the war, moving and emigrating all over the world. Real statistics prove it. The world has no shortage of Jews. But to get back to Elie Wiesel, do you admit he is a fraud? Are you really going to argue that whether he is or isn’t, he should be left alone and remain the icon of the Holocaust? Are you that comfortable with dishonesty? Should the Holocaust stand on fraud? These are serious questions you and all Jews should consider.

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